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Logbear
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Location: Getchell. Wash |
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Logbear
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 Sat Apr 27, 2024 4:37 pm |
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“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
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Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Sat Apr 27, 2024 5:56 pm |
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I don't know exactly what all the angst is about. It is pretty straight forward about the who what where why how. It turns out this is mainly for the agricultural economy and water supply systems.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
 ChinookPass, Gil
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
ChinookPass, Gil
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Logbear
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Location: Getchell. Wash |
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Logbear
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Sat Apr 27, 2024 6:20 pm |
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I'm seriously asking because I don't know. I don't have any angst.
If a drought is declared when water supply goes less than 75%, does the drought end when it goes above 75%.
I'm not asking this to argue. I really don't know.
I looked at a few river flows today and they were all going up.
“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
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altasnob
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Location: Tacoma |
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altasnob
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Sat Apr 27, 2024 6:58 pm |
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| Logbear wrote: | | If a drought is declared when water supply goes less than 75%, does the drought end when it goes above 75%. |
Once a drought emergency is declared, they don't undo it even if we are hit with a biblical rainstorm and there is flooding in the streets. The drought emergency declaration triggers the state moving money from the general fund to Ecology, who then dolls the money out to grant recipients. Once the money starts to flow, you can't turn it off.
Also, it's not as simple as just looking at stream flows and saying below 75% drought, above no drought. You have to factor in the available water in the entire watershed, and the available water in the future as well (not just what is in the stream at a given moment).
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Tom
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Tom
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Sat Apr 27, 2024 7:25 pm |
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https://apps.ecology.wa.gov/publications/UIPages/documents/2411013.pdf
| Quote: | | Ecology is making up to $4.5 million available under this funding opportunity to reduce
hardship from current drought conditions. As the drought unfolds, Ecology will continue to
evaluate the need for funding and adjust as able. |
Perhaps the initial 4.5 million might be irreversible, but I'd think that's a far cry from "Once the money starts to flow, you can't turn it off."
RumiDude
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Logbear
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Location: Getchell. Wash |
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Logbear
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Sun Apr 28, 2024 12:08 am |
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| altasnob wrote: | | Logbear wrote: | | If a drought is declared when water supply goes less than 75%, does the drought end when it goes above 75%. |
Once a drought emergency is declared, they don't undo it even if we are hit with a biblical rainstorm and there is flooding in the streets. The drought emergency declaration triggers the state moving money from the general fund to Ecology, who then dolls the money out to gr. Save money ant recipients. Once the money starts to flow, you can't turn it off.
Also, it's not as simple as just looking at stream flows and saying below 75% drought, above no drought. You have to factor in the available water in the entire watershed, and the available water in the future as well (not just what is in the stream at a given moment). |
Thanks for the simple answer. I think I get it now. The declaration triggers money movement when all the numbers (snowpack, lake levels, river flows, etc) hits the trigger. It doesn't say, or care, if we're still in a drought or not.
I'm glad a drought has been declared because I like using money to conserve water. And it's not just water that gets saved. When drip irrigation goes in, electric power cost for pumping goes way down.
Save water. Save money
I would imagine that this money movement upon declaration of a drought will come up every year.
“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
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gb
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gb
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Sun Apr 28, 2024 6:11 am |
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| peter707 wrote: | This needs a bit more specification, which of these is intended?
"For all 5 locations, the temperature will be above normal and the precipitation will be below normal?"
"For a majority of the 5 locations, the temperature will be above normal and the precipitation will be below normal?"
"For one of 5 locations, the temperature will be above normal and the precipitation will be below normal?"
"For all 5 locations, either the temperature will be above normal or the precipitation will be below normal?"
"For a majority of the 5 locations, either the temperature will be above normal or the precipitation will be below normal?"
"For one of 5 locations, either the temperature will be above normal or the precipitation will be below normal?"
 11,000' on Mt. Adams, Summer 2022 |
It won't be a close call. I am just going with the CPC monthly outlook and discussion thereof which cites longer term trends combined with El Nino. By latter summer El Nino is supposed to transition to La Nina. Also the last number of summers (trend) the greatest departure from normal has been in late spring and early summer. Latter summers have been closer to normal.
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gb
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gb
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Sun Apr 28, 2024 6:21 am |
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| Tom wrote: | https://apps.ecology.wa.gov/publications/UIPages/documents/2411013.pdf
| Quote: | | Ecology is making up to $4.5 million available under this funding opportunity to reduce
hardship from current drought conditions. As the drought unfolds, Ecology will continue to
evaluate the need for funding and adjust as able. |
Perhaps the initial 4.5 million might be irreversible, but I'd think that's a far cry from "Once the money starts to flow, you can't turn it off." |
That's the thing. Think of it as an insurance policy that costs about 60 cents per citizen.
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altasnob
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Location: Tacoma |
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altasnob
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Sun Apr 28, 2024 8:22 am |
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| Logbear wrote: | | I'm glad a drought has been declared because I like using money to conserve water. |
People assume money spent on water conservation is always good for the environment. If you look at the Western US, residential users are not the primary users, it is agriculture and livestock. CA and AZ are in a perpetual water crisis not necessarily because of the millions who live there, it's because they grow a ton of crops and livestock that require large amounts of water in places that naturally don't receive much rainfall. Same is true here in WA to some extent. Is continuing to promote inefficient agriculture in inefficient places good for the environment? Is promoting more development in water restricted areas good for the environment? Is paying farmers and ranchers to not farm and ranch an efficient use of resources?
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Logbear
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Joined: 13 Sep 2006
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Location: Getchell. Wash |
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Logbear
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Sun Apr 28, 2024 9:49 am |
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| gb wrote: | | peter707 wrote: | This needs a bit more specification, which of these is intended?
"For all 5 locations, the temperature will be above normal and the precipitation will be below normal?"
"For a majority of the 5 locations, the temperature will be above normal and the precipitation will be below normal?"
"For one of 5 locations, the temperature will be above normal and the precipitation will be below normal?"
"For all 5 locations, either the temperature will be above normal or the precipitation will be below normal?"
"For a majority of the 5 locations, either the temperature will be above normal or the precipitation will be below normal?"
"For one of 5 locations, either the temperature will be above normal or the precipitation will be below normal?"
11,000' on Mt. Adams, Summer 2022 |
It won't be a close call. I am just going with the CPC monthly outlook and discussion thereof which sites longer term trends combined with El Nino. By latter summer El Nino is supposed to transition to La Nina. Also the last number of summers (trend) the greatest departure from normal has been in late spring and early summer. Latter summers have been closer to normal. |
El Nino is Rapidly Collapsing
And the effects of El Nino, including a wet California and warm Northwest, should be fading.
https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/
“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
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Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Sun Apr 28, 2024 1:17 pm |
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| Logbear wrote: | | El Nino is Rapidly Collapsing
And the effects of El Nino, including a wet California and warm Northwest, should be fading.
https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/ |
Wow! Who would have guessed that when the weather forecast aligns with Cliff Mass's preferred narrative, he suddenly sounds much more certain about long range weather predictions. No "snake oil" in his concluding statement: "My suggestion: if you can make some good deals on ski equipment, do so...." Funny how that changes when it's his prediction.
My personal note is that Cliff Mass is a really good meteorologist. But he is also a highly opinionated editorialist who is quite often wrongheaded and just plain wrong. There's nothing wrong with that as long as he keeps those two clearly separated. When he doesn't, he loses a lot of credibility. YMMV
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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jinx'sboy
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Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 937 | TRs | Pics
Location: on a great circle route |
Monthly Wildfire predictive update out today - 5/1 - from National Interagency Fire Center.
These are a pretty well thought out compilation from weather and fire behavior specialists at regional and national levels.
About 8 minutes long. Begins with a rundown of current and winter moisture conditions.
Updates of the predictions for May, June, July and August start 1/2 through, with maps.
Interestingly, NW Washington is forecast to be ‘above normal’ for fire potential, but not the rest of the State.
https://www.nifc.gov/nicc-files/predictive/NMAC_Weather_Outlook.mp4
Anne Elk, runup
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Eric Hansen
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Yep, I check that first of the month update, print version online. Here in Wisconsin we just now got off the "red zone" above normal outlook for wildfire but they are predicting us back in the red come June.
Drop down a tad there and you will see the "North American" summary and outlook, for the whole continent. Benefit there is viewing maps of Canadian conditions and outlook.
Off trail rambler
jinx'sboy
Off trail rambler
jinx'sboy
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Eric Hansen
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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Sat May 04, 2024 9:50 am |
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Drought busting rains, huh?
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